COOL HAND LUKE
4:43 Tue Oct 21
Re: Sam's version of events...
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Zero
No. If he had walked voluntarily he wouldn't have got it.
And it looks like Sulli had made the decision to take the club in a different more 'West Ham' direction. He probably hoped to move Sam on ahead of this but Sam hid behind his contract.
Hence we 'appear' to have Sam overseeing (and basking in) someone else's vision for the club.
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ironsofcanada
4:40 Tue Oct 21
Re: Sam's version of events...
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COOL HAND LUKE 4:34 Tue Oct 21
Can you give any evidence for your mighty and bold assertions about how the club is being run that is not paper talk or worse?
For me the logical flip-flops that have to be made to accept your version of events are way too much.
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COOL HAND LUKE
4:34 Tue Oct 21
Re: Sam's version of events...
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Hence Sulli has nipped it in the bud and started to change things around to ensure that doesn't happen.
History has shown it is too late addressing the problems after Sam leaves.
In short, Sulli is heading the 'Sam' problems off at the pass.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
4:29 Tue Oct 21
Re: Sam's version of events...
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Just a small point. Allardyce would have got his 3 million for this season whether he was here or not. So the old, 'he was prepared to be humiliated just for the cash' argument doesn't make sense.
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13 Brentford Rd
4:25 Tue Oct 21
Re: Sam's version of events...
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I seem to recall that it was widely believed on WHO that he was destroying the club and if he left it would take years before all the damage he was doing was put right and for us to start playing better football again..........
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COOL HAND LUKE
4:18 Tue Oct 21
Re: Sam's version of events...
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The key to this is Sulli now has a controlling interest, and had had a gutful, believing (as we fans did) that Sam's existing MO was not only producing a nest full of poor purchases / cronies, but worse still, a few capable players who were unable to produce any decent form in Sam's hoof it and hope playing format, designed at best to scrape a draw per game.
The initiative has been taken away from Sam e.g. young hungry purchases with no previous 'Sam' history; someone else organising the training of the strikers, and a natural follow on to that being a different set up needed in the middle to support the attack.
This means we are no longer Sam Utd and stand a much better chance of doing okay if he is sacked or walks.
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ironsofcanada
10:57 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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Still an awful lot of valiant struggles with "tactical genius" strawmen on here.
CHL
The point about the tendrils was that people were saying that he had so much control that the club would be affected for years after he was gone and now magically he has none with months and any of the progress is in spite of him.
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Arko
10:25 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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When I said bigger clubs I wasn't just talking about English clubs. IF a manager is truly a genius or tactical mastermind clubs from foreign leagues usually become interested.
Why else would Mourinho work in England, not Portugal ? Same with Allardyce. If he was all he claims he is, surely a big club from Spain, France, Germany or Italy would have shown an interest by now.
And yes, I was wrong in not expecting Allardyce being able to field a side with two strikers and a midfield diamond. I didn't expect him to put Nolan on the bench. All of which he did.
I'm still disputing he planned it all like that, it happened, it worked, he stuck with it.
Good for him. And West Ham.
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COOL HAND LUKE
10:23 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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Liverpool were Suarez United. That is all.
It's not WHO posters as such saying Sam is the 'messiah' - I would suggest HE is intimating that himself (or as close as he dare). He can't bear to have us thinking he has been hauled into this situation by his braces (even if he has).
And YES, I will happily stand up and admit I believe (along with many others it seems) that Sam has been allowed to get his 'tendrils' too deeply into the club, along with a fair bit of cronyism including many of his backroom staff / Nolan / etc. It's not the case that we thought it, and it wasn't true, and now it's "gone away" because we're doing okay.
Is it more the case that Sulli and Co awakened to the fact and (Sulli being Sulli) Sam was probably challenged on it at 'that' meeting i.e. "We know what's going on here Sam... we want the club back under OUR control and therefore etc etc.."? I believe Sulli has control now and he feels able to get out of his pram a bit on these matters instead of having Gold and Brady in the way to dilute it down. No bad thing.
Whatever media oil is being poured on the waters now (be it by Sam or Sulli or whoever), there is little doubt Sam got called firmly to task at season end. So where are we now? Has Sam decided there might be another pay day at WHU for him if he can ride the happy waves? He apparently survived this season by hiding behind his contract, but we all know he won't get £3M pa from anywhere else now if we hoof him at seasons end.
It's not good enough to say "Oh, it's okay at the moment so we don't care what was/is wrong". I personally have spent half my life as a union official battling against that sort of brain dead silo mentality. YES, we DO want to fucking know - otherwise next time the sun goes behind a cloud we'll be back where we were six months ago.
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Norflundon
9:57 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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Try reading through 13's posts...although don't go to far back as you'll se e he's gone to and fro like an Italian general in the war
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ironsofcanada
9:51 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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backpass 9:41 Mon Oct 20
Like Liverpool?
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backpass
9:41 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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lets see what happens when we are not playing the bottom two clubs!
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,
9:41 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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Norf, point us to the thread where BFS is painted as " some sort of genius turning our fortunes around with some master plan".
I would like to ridicule the poster.
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Norflundon
9:36 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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13
Not really the manager has done a brilliant job so far this season with the hand he's been dealt but if carroll and nolan had not got injured IMO we wouldn't be playing like this.....there's no way he'd of left nolan out and put Downing in the hole and that has been one of decisions that has made us so successful so far.
The main reason we are playing so well is the change in transfer policy a change that many of us deluded fans were calling for last summer. The board said they'd take more control of transfers and none of know who was responsible for bringing these players in.
His transfer record before the board took control isn't much sort of disastrous
Like I said he's doing an excellent job so far and long may it continue but let's stop this BOLLOX that he's some sort of genius turning our fortunes around with some master plan
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The Joker
9:26 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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Arko 8:54 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
Which big club is that then? Arsenal and Man U jobs have been sewn up for most of the last 20 years so that leaves.... Erm... Liverpool? Unless you're gonna count City and Chelsea with their foreign dosh as big clubs. Even then, Chelsea have had a bit of a Jose fixation and City want to be global so will only appoint big name foreigners.
Sam's in the biggest job he's ever gonna get right now and I think he knows it.
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Sir Alf
9:25 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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As wise sage told me many years ago.... it takes a confident, secure person to be willing to be wrong.
The same people also struggle with saying sorry. Unfortunately, this site is a microcosm for life in general. There are sadly a high percentage that will search long and hard for reasons to not give BFS some credit. To do so would suggest they were a tad quick to judge :-)
Like most things its more gray than black and white. He (BFS) and Macdonald and team (incl Sherringham), the owners etc... have all contributed but ultimately the manager deserves credit even if some of what has improved is serendipity.
Well done Big Boned Sam but beware, things can turn downwards very quickly and those with entrenched views and closed minds are always lurking in the shadows waiting for things to go wrong :-)
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13 Brentford Rd
9:15 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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You know people are struggling when luck is cited.
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Arko
9:12 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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THAT I agree with Canada. He has put the club in a decent position, the players claim they enjoy playing for him (hard to say the opposite in publich though) and we are playing the right kind of football now.
But he keeps dividing our fanbase. And he's been trampling all over our traditions, ridiculing our history and the West Ham way. Some fans will never forgive him for that.
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ironsofcanada
9:01 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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Arko 8:54 Mon Oct 20
It is not all down to Allardyce and there is a element of luck in most things including football. But if "BFS" can be single-handedly "killing my club" 8 months or so ago, he can be given at least some credit for positive changes, especially when players have mentioned him specifically. And should be given some credit for keeping us in the position to make those changes.
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Dapablo
8:56 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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It's painful watching all this squirming it really is kindly stop it please.
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Arko
8:54 Mon Oct 20
Re: Sam's version of events...
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I have no problem at all to admit when I'm wrong. The thing is: I really don't think Allardyce is that great a manager in the sense of the word.
If Sunderland hadn't priced him out of our league we'd have Wickham at the club now, Allardyce's prefered target, not Sakho.
With Carroll and Nolan available, who knows if Allardyce had ever even tried a two striker formation.
Valencia could still be waiting for his first game.
IF Allardyce is such a genius at managing football teams why has no bigger club employed him so far ?
He's been very lucky with the current situation, but I am grateful that he has in fact managed to help this club to more stability over the last three years.
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